Residents oppose Curry County resolution to assume ‘Constitutional management authority over all public forest lands’

Presenter: After more than a century of fire suppression, counties all over the American West are now seeing not only the benefits of their public lands, but also their potential for megafires. They fear their towns could be the next Lahaina, Talent and Phoenix, Paradise, or LA.

Curry County invited an Arizona natural resources consultant to present a three-day seminar last November. At that seminar, participants discussed using Oregon’s wildfire risk map as the basis to declare an emergency and assume management authority over federal forestlands in Curry County. Commissioner Jay Trost:

Commissioner Jay Trost (November 12, 2024): We want to try to move forward to get back some autonomy in the management process. And I feel like the state inadvertently gave us a road map when they created the fire map system, which I’m sure you’re familiar with? (Yeah.). Because now we can use their own data, to identify that we have this identified risk. (Yeah.)

[00:01:03] This risk is not being mitigated on the state or federal level, it’s being mitigated on the private level. We’re paying for all these risk parameters. It’s a state of emergency, financially and physically. And so, we now demand, whether it’s coordination or whatever, of management of these lands that are not being managed. They’re actually being managed in a way that’s threatening our existence.

[00:01:28] Presenter: On Nov. 14, 2024, consultant Doyel Shamley:

[00:01:33] Doyel Shamley (Veritas Research Consulting, Nov. 14, 2024): And yes, it sounds like a bold, crazy move, but this country was founded on bold, crazy moves. So, we just need to regain that on a broader scale.

[00:01:42] Participant in Curry County seminar (Nov. 14, 2024): If the county takes back ownership, so to speak, of the property, what’s the county’s liability in the event that there is a fire? You know, right now the federal government is the ultimate authority and can turn a blind eye and, you know, they don’t claim responsibility for any of the fires. (Correct.) How does that fall on the county? I mean, are we more at risk?

[00:02:05] Doyel Shamley (Veritas Research Consulting, Nov. 14, 2024): No. It falls on—in the county perspective, it falls under your state risk management pool.

[00:02:10] Presenter: Over the last few weeks, Curry County commissioners moved toward a vote on a resolution that noted the physical threat identified in the wildfire risk map, blamed state and federal agencies for failing to manage public forest land, and stated, ‘The County formally declares its intention to assume its Constitutional management authority over all public forest lands within the metes and bounds of its border.’

But on Feb. 18, just before the vote, the resolution was withdrawn. Commissioner Jay Trost:

[00:02:42] Commissioner Jay Trost: I would like to amend the agenda. I was going to remove the wildfire hazard map discussion action item, the resolution. Couple of reasons: Well, the initial reason was, so we had discussed at the town hall that we were going to separate the two issues between the wildfire map and land use.

[00:03:07] However, even more importantly, the wildfire hazard map discussion is really dynamic right now in Salem. There’s a lot of moving pieces. There’s a lot of discussion around this.

[00:03:20] Presenter: Commissioner Brad Alcorn:

[00:03:22] Commissioner Brad Alcorn: You know, I felt, I told you at the meeting, I felt strongly about that. Separating it was the right thing to do. I had hoped we would be able to discuss what that looks like tonight, but I do think it’s wise to not move forward with anything and I would support pulling it.

[00:03:40] Presenter: An overflow crowd spilled out of the commissioners meeting room and into the hallway, as many Curry County residents provided public comment on the proposal. Here are some selected comments, edited for brevity. Tim Scullen:

[00:03:54] Tim Scullen: People have come here, shown up tonight, have other things to do, obviously, but are concerned enough that they’re here to talk to you, and so I think that’s very significant, and I would imagine that most of them are probably opposed to the whole forest takeover thing, so, you know, listen to your constituents, and heed them, and we do want to help you, but not doing the wrong thing.

[00:04:15] Iris Leaver: My name is Iris Leaver. Our older children remember well being evacuated for the Chetco Bar fire. I wholeheartedly oppose what was previously item 7A, Declaring a local emergency. It’s not clear why this is being pursued now, and what the goal is specifically, and if you cannot clearly outline what the plan would be, then it makes no sense to push this resolution at this time, unless you have motives that you don’t want to clearly outline to the public ahead of time.

[00:04:43] Our forests are a treasure, and if you feel the same, I hope you will consider a different approach to this issue, one that builds the trust and community you claim to value.

[00:04:52] Commissioner Brad Alcorn: John Goodwin:

[00:04:53] John Goodwin: I am not prepared, frankly, and ill- informed, but a lot of people here wish simply to express dismay that we contemplate turning over national lands that belong to the 300 million people of the United States to—no offense, but—to county management. I think that is a terrible mistake.

[00:05:27] Bob Morrow: I’m Bob Morrow. I’m from Langlois, resident up there. Please don’t create any more headaches for yourselves. Curry County already has enough challenges without unnecessary complications to your jobs. The well-intended (when it was designed) wildfire map is already being amended.

[00:05:49] Now you’re considering declaring an emergency at the request of an out-of-state consultant with an alternate agenda. Is this truly a solution for Curry County citizens, or is it just another instance of political flood-the-zone disruption coming our way?

[00:06:07] The state of Utah’s 10th Amendment failure at the Supreme Court last month should be a cautionary tale for you.

[00:06:15] Why are you doing this? What result are you looking for? Is it financial? Is it a management plan? Let us know, please.

[00:06:26] Presenter: Port Orford Mayor Ann Vileisis:

[00:06:29] Ann Vileisis (Port Orford, mayor): The idea that counties can assert sovereign authority over federal lands is really not an accepted legal doctrine. The 10th Amendment does not grant counties authority over federal lands, and U.S. courts have consistently ruled that the public lands remain under congressional and federal jurisdiction.

[00:06:48] I also wanted to point out that I was, you know, studying up on some of the fire stuff and got a chance to review the, very recently updated Curry County Community Wildfire Protection Plan and it really provided a very well-considered strategy of many different things to do to work towards fire safety.

And it recommended again and again and again to collaborate with partnering agencies and organizations that have expertise to accomplish crucial tasks, and it really laid out many of the things that are already in progress.

[00:07:22] And so I just want to underscore, I thought that that plan showed that in Curry County we have a long heritage of local people working together. And even though I don’t always agree with everybody, the people who work in the public agencies are neighbors in our communities that have a lot of important knowledge and expertise to contribute.

[00:07:40] And so, I would say if you proceed with any declaration that has an intent to take over public land or federal land, especially if it’s guided by an outside consultant from Arizona, that you will really risk destroying goodwill and established local partnerships that could help us all in the really important task of fire safety.

[00:08:01] Joy May: I’m Joy May and I live in Port Orford. I’m asking the commissioners’ resolution Declaring a Local Emergency Due to the Imposition of Wildfire Hazard Map and Wildland Urban Interface Zone Legislation (that’s a long title) be immediately withdrawn.

[00:08:22] There’s been a lot of conversation about insurance rates in conjunction with the wildfire hazard map, and that seemed to increase the sense of urgency to get this passed, and indeed Oregonians have faced soaring premiums and have had their policies canceled.

[00:08:38] Those insurance changes began in 2020, after the disastrous Labor Day Fires. The Oregon Wildfire Hazard Map was not even in existence in 2020 or 2021. The initial draft wasn’t presented until 2022.

[00:08:59] Insurers, all on their own, realize that there’s been a dramatic increase in natural disaster-related losses due to climate change. This has resulted in higher fees being passed on to their customers.

[00:09:13] Kim Foster: My name’s Kim Foster. I’ve got to ask: Have you consulted with any insurance companies about any of this? Any insurance providers confirming that this emergency resolution, either as it was written before or as it is now, will actually keep policies affordable?

[00:09:30] Because I spoke with my insurer, Allstate, and they made clear a few things, that the most effective ways to reduce wildfire risk are homeowner-driven: metal roofs (which I need to get anyway), cement board siding, Hardie Plank, defensible space, clearing debris. (It) gave me a lot to think about to have those things confirmed.

[00:09:49] Because I couldn’t help but notice that these are all the same strategies that your volunteer Curry County firefighters have already recommended in great detail over the past few meetings. So it seems a bit confusing, that we listen to a guy from Arizona at all when we’ve already got such a good group out here.

[00:10:07] Jana Rogers: My name is Jana Rogers, and I grew up here on the southern Oregon coast. I’m in my final term at Lewis and Clark Law School, and specialize in environmental and natural resource and energy law.

[00:10:18] Local involvement is vital to improve federal land planning, but promoting a radical state of emergency to prescribe land uses on federal public land directly conflicts with federal law. The county cannot take ownership of federal land and give it to industry, and it cannot tell the Forest Service how to manage public land.

[00:10:37] The legal precedents set in decisions like the Granite Rock decision affirm that federal agencies, not local governments, have the authority to manage these lands.

[00:10:48] While the Federal Land Policy and Management Act and National Forest Management Act encourage local cooperation, they do not authorize local control over public lands.

[00:11:00] Presenter: Zoe Bradbury DeSurra:

[00:11:02] Zoe Bradbury DeSurra: I think it’s great that we’re pushing pause on this emergency declaration. I did want to speak tonight to ask, like many people, that it get rescinded altogether.

[00:11:12] I was on the phone this morning with Sen. Jeff Golden and asked him what was going on in Salem with this. He himself has asked that the wildfire hazard map be repealed. So he’s working proactively with Republicans and to get that done with the support of the governor at this point.

[00:11:33] Jeff did send me the speech he made on the Senate floor on Feb. 4 and said that I could share it with everyone here, which I thought might give you some confidence in your decision to either pull this off the table altogether or at least pull back on the reins.

[00:11:50] He wrote: ‘One thing’s become clear about our ongoing wildfire crisis…’

[00:11:54] Presenter: Sen. Jeff Golden:

[00:11:55] Sen. Jeff Golden (Feb. 4, 2025, Oregon Senate, Remonstrances): …Government can’t possibly solve it on its own. Nothing we face calls more loudly for all hands on deck. Some of our Senate Bill 762 programs do promote the collaboration we need. One clearly doesn’t. The recently released wildfire hazard map makes little to no sense to many rural landowners.

[00:12:17] They’re frustrated and angry about it. We’ve reached this point because the map’s findings are driven entirely by broad landscape factors and give no weight to the conditions and surroundings, basically the flammability of the property itself. You get that clearly when you walk individual properties with their frustrated owners.

[00:12:38] Pretty much every member of this chamber walking in their shoes would feel that frustration. I am not attacking the science at play here. It’s well established that you can’t judge the hazard level of a particular parcel just by walking across it. Large landscape traits you can’t see are major factors.

[00:12:57] But asking Oregonians to accept findings from a model that gives no weight, not 1%, to what actually exists on their specific properties, asks them to ignore what their eyes are seeing. That’s too much to ask and we have to stop asking it.

[00:13:13] Presenter: After reading from Sen. Golden’s speech, Zoe continued:

[00:13:17] Zoe Bradbury DeSurra: I think Ann (Vileisis) made a great point bringing your attention to the CWPP, the fire plan that was published last August for the county. Have you guys seen that? Yeah. It just seems like a great foundation with a lot of great resources and analysis and it seems like the overarching theme of that is collaboration. Like, the more we work together and pull in all of the resources, having one of those sounds like it sets us, poises us to be able to apply for grants and attract more resources to the county.

[00:13:48] But just going it alone sounds like a very lonely place. A very worrisome and risky thing to do.

[00:13:56] Commissioner Brad Alcorn: (Calls next speaker):

[00:13:58] Speaker: I’d like to hark back to the amount of money that people presume they’re going to make off of logging. When Brown and Labonte’ were commissioners, they wanted to log the small area that they had just north of Blacklock (Point), which was traded for the piece at Pacific High, eventually. And you know, we had a meeting and I discussed with them the actual costs… for the slash cleanup, for replanting, for spraying. It’s going to take probably five years of spraying out there with Garlon, which isn’t cheap, to control gorse. So we can’t just be thinking in terms of, ‘We’re going to make all this money.’

[00:14:44] If you get into the logging business, you’re talking about a 40-year system. And you have to have the amount of money to carry you over. I don’t know if the money you made off of the lot up there, across from Pacific High School, is enough to have covered your expenses.

[00:15:08] I’ve heard various tales about, you know, didn’t get the highest price for the logs, and this and that, and that’s pretty typical, you’re not alone. But I just really think that you may find that the expenses of logging are not going to outweigh, particularly if you don’t already have a system in place that you can provide some of the work and you can provide some of the equipment. Because that really adds up, especially when you’ve got to build roads up in there, and all the other stuff that goes with it.

[00:15:41] Presenter: Neal Holcomb:

[00:15:42] Neal Holcomb: I do oppose any part of a resolution that would call for exercising constitutional authority over federal lands. It’s just not an accepted legal precedent that’s going to be worth the county’s trouble.

[00:15:58] Even if 30 years down the line you won a Supreme Court case, we’d still be 30 years in the red from fighting it. And it’s, the likelihood of that is just infinitesimal. It sounds as though probably largely due to input from local governments and citizenry that the fire map problem may get resolved to where it’ll be a workable document and a plan can be formed behind it.

[00:16:30] If we’re going to have a say in federal land management for the betterment of the county, I suggest that we can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[00:16:44] Presenter: Dee Ragsdale:

[00:16:45] Dee Ragsdale: I’m deeply concerned that the county has entered into a contractual agreement with Veritas Research Consulting and Doyel Shamley. I’ve submitted a public records request because I want to see the contract. I want to get my eyes on it.

[00:17:00] I’ve also asked for a public records request on your emails. I want to see what kind of emails are going back and forth. And that’s for Mr. Hollinger, I’ve asked for your emails specifically with Doyel Shamley between July 1 of 2024 and today’s date and I’ll email correspondence between all of you.

[00:17:18] Thank you for looking for solutions, but this is not the right path. 

[00:17:21] Commissioner Brad Alcorn: Meg Humphreys:

[00:17:23] Meg Humphreys: I’m really grateful that you removed that agenda item tonight and hope that that item four around the constitutional taking of the federal lands becomes permanently removed as part of your ways to address the fire hazards in the state and in our county.

[00:17:40] I also do request that you possibly take a look further at some of the tax laws that have been put onto the private timber lands in this county. I know when these laws were put in place, it was long ago, before they were owned by corporate hedge funds and things like that, and probably could use a little bit of renovations themselves just in an effort to try to generate some funds for the county.

[00:18:07] (Next speaker):

[00:18:09] (Speaker): Thank you for moving the agenda item. That’s really great. At the workshop, you all said that you hadn’t consulted with the county counsel about the possible litigation, lawsuits, and financial impact the county will for sure face if we do this federal takeover, right? And so it would be great to know when that’s going to happen and then can the public also get the feedback from county counsel when you do speak with them?

[00:18:34] Tim Palmer: I’m Tim Palmer from Port Orford and, like others here, I want to thank you for tabling this item and putting it off. But like others, I want to ask you to put off the so-called ‘constitutional management authority’ permanently.

[00:18:47] That idea of your public forest takeover is, as I said before, impractical, uneconomic, unpopular, and illegal. And I just want to remind you, you all took oaths of office to follow the law. Doing what was in those original resolutions is against the law. It’s illegal to assume authority for ‘all public forest lands’ just by saying that.

[00:19:13] And then in the name of fire control to cut timber would in any other scenario be called timber theft. So that is just not the way to go here.

[00:19:26] The judges in the Supreme Court, get this, seven times in the last 200 years, have ruled down cases like this one. Most recently, two months ago, with President Trump’s own Supreme Court, who ruled that they wouldn’t even listen to Utah’s plea for a program like what has been proposed here. And by the way, the taxpayers of Utah lost half a million dollars and only got to hear that their claim was not worth listening to.

[00:19:57] So in short I just plead with you to stick to your real jobs of running this county and quit trying to run the affairs of the federal government.

[00:20:06] Commissioner Brad Alcorn: Kris Vyverberg:

[00:20:09] Kris Vyverberg: You have chosen to align yourself with consultants that pride themselves on vitriolic and divisive political attacks. It’s frankly dismaying. It’s disheartening.

[00:20:22] The commissioners have faulted the state map developers for not seeking local expertise. You argue this oversight resulted in the failure to consider the unique climate factors in Curry County that would have resulted in lower wildfire risk determinations.

[00:20:41] I appreciate your sensitivity to the use of less informed outsiders, but you have done precisely the same thing by insisting on hiring and following the advice of a political consultant from Arizona with no local knowledge of our landscape or of the unique demands our landscape places on the community, on foresters, and on firefighters alike. 

[00:21:09] Given this, I urge you to convene an advisory group from locally available expertise to provide you and the people of Curry County informed oversight on this important aspect of your work. You can and must do better.

[00:21:26] Kirk Vyverberg: Commissioners, thank you (Kirk Vyverberg from Port Orford), for considering a review and changing the language of your declaration.

[00:21:35] Paragraph 1 asserts, ‘Whereas a physical threat to Curry County and its citizens, as identified by the adoption of the state wildfire hazard map, which has resulted from the systematic failure of the state and federal agencies to manage public forest land…’

[00:21:56] That language. We acknowledge that the threat of the county is identified by the state fire hazard map, yet in no way it identifies the causes as attributed to the federal agency public lands management.

[00:22:15] Therefore, the cure of the county usurping the federal authority is without merit and justification in the language of the document. As results, we advise and direct the council to refrain from obligating the tax dollars to pursue this declaration as stated.

[00:22:36] Secondly, paragraph 6, that no consideration was made for local climate factors in Curry County. The commission points to the eminent harm to the county due to the omission of local advice and knowledge.

[00:22:54] As citizens of Curry County, we do now admonish the council against committing the same mistake and advocate for the formation of a wildfire risk advisory board comprised of those experienced in natural resource management, fire suppression, timber management, land use planning, insurance industry relations, and federal law.

[00:23:20] The quality of the public comments made in previous council meetings indicate the availability of said persons with a willingness to support your community.

[00:23:32] Commissioner Brad Alcorn: Cindy?

[00:23:34] Cindy Carr: Cindy Carr, I live in Port Orford. I came here just to express as a resident my opposition to any plan that would seize control of federal lands or state lands and place them in the hands of the county. I think that’s a mistake.

[00:23:54] And just as a matter of public personal justice, I would also like to magnify Commissioner Alcorn’s warning that we fact-check the statements of our neighbors and friends. I’d like to amend that to, we really need to fact-check the statements of the Commission as well.

[00:24:13] Please stop this push toward controlling the federal lands.

[00:24:21] Alan Johnson: My name’s Alan Johnson. I’m opposed to the emergency declaration for two reasons. One is that I don’t see any language that puts any sort of obligation on the private landowners whose properties abut almost the entire strip of coastline, from a three to five miles wide or more. That to me would be the bigger immediate threat to the 95% of this county’s population that lives, I guess, apparently along the coastline.

[00:24:44] So, if it is such an emergency, we should be levying some heavy demands on those private landowners as well, it would seem to me, and I don’t see anything there.

[00:24:53] The other thing I just, I want to just comment, it’s very frustrating trying to access the federal lands. And my fear is that if the county takes over this land, it’s all going to go to leases to timber companies, and we’re going to see yet more gates go up. Now that’s speculation on my part, but I don’t see that getting any easier and it would really be painful if somebody lives here and gives up the federal access and at the same time gives up their own access to that property.

[00:25:20] Commissioner Brad Alcorn: Poppy?

[00:25:22] (Youth speaker): Hi. I decided to come speak on this today because I don’t think you’re getting a lot of outlook from the youth of our county.

[00:25:31] Curry County forests are home to multiple native plants and animals. Many of these animals rely on natural resources such as trees and foliage, as well as access to them. These forests are trusted within the hands of the federal government for a reason, not local politicians with unknown agendas.  

[00:25:50] Living in Gold Beach, and I’m sure many of the other towns that built up Curry County, you learn quickly how important names, connections, and social status are within the town. Working within a local business also opens your eyes to the special treatment of many people within high holding positions, such as Commissioner Patrick Hollinger.

[00:26:11] Plus, I’m sure many people in this room can recall many interactions with him themselves. These locals are well-known and well-connected, so opening the possibility of selling our federally-protected public land to private owners such as loggers opens more doors than many would realize.

[00:26:27] A quote from Commissioner Patrick Hollinger stated, We’re not looking to be the owners of this federal land. Yet within reports of what is being planned, Curry County has claimed that they’re considering taking over management of them…

[00:26:39] Do you, as people, want to lose access to your favorite hikes, swimming holes, hunting spots, and more? Do you want to risk loggers taking the clearings of trees farther than they already have?

[00:26:51] And do you, as people, want to put sole trust that giving that much control to local politicians would actually contain fires in the ways they claim?

[00:27:00] There’s nothing for teenagers and kids of this community to do other than be outside, and you guys risking taking that away from people is pointless, unless you want everyone inside playing video games, even though that’s also talked against.

[00:27:13] Thank you for your time. (Applause)

[00:27:21] Presenter: Commissioner Jay Trost:

[00:27:23] Commissioner Jay Trost: This scenario was an exercise in ‘Ready, Fire, Aim.’ I don’t think we did a good job of discussing the ‘why,’ right? Why? Why is this important?

[00:27:33] If we understand that it’s important, then ‘what.’ What is it that we are seeking to do in its entirety? And I think we need to have a better idea of what that looks like, and that’s when we bring in the collaboration, the experts, the stakeholders.

Once the ‘what’ is essentially identified in terms of what is it we’re trying to accomplish, then I think we start looking at the next pieces, which is the ‘when’ and the ‘how.’ And I think the problem is, is this entire conversation got started off with the ‘how,’ right? You’re reading a lot of legislative jargon which describes the ‘how,’ instead of starting with the ‘why.’

[00:28:12] Presenter: Commissioner Brad Alcorn:

[00:28:14] Commissioner Brad Alcorn: I don’t have a problem admitting when I make mistakes, and there were definitely two mistakes that were made in this case. One was we combined the two issues. I think we talked about that. And the other was how we messaged it to all of you. And those are mistakes, for sure.

[00:28:32] I tell you, this is a challenging job, and I make mistakes regularly. And I’ll apologize for those too.

[00:28:37] But, that being said, some positives that have occurred here is we got a lot of engagement with the public, which we so need. This county needs that right now And we cannot solve this county’s funding solutions without that level of involvement.

[00:28:52] So one of the things that really is a strong positive takeaway here is several of you have come up with some funding solutions, some kind of outside-of-the-box funding solutions, and we also discussed putting together a panel of people to help us with that.

[00:29:12] And I think that Citizens Advisory Committee will work at our direction, and that direction I would like to see be towards funding solutions, out-of-the-box thinking and taking some of those ideas and pushing them further down the road and see if we can actually implement some of those ideas.

[00:29:29] They’re not going to solve the county’s funding problems, but they will definitely have an impact on our day-to-day operations and the future of this county. So those positions are open right now and we’re going to need to work towards filling those. And as we do, I hope we get the same level of involvement from many of you in this room.

[00:29:49] We really need that, and I appreciate that, and I thank all of you for your involvement.

[00:29:54] Presenter: After hearing near-unanimous opposition from Curry County residents, commissioners paused a resolution to take over management of federal forestlands.